Claude Hagège, "English as Global Language: Real or Imagined Threat?” - MIT CBBS

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PRESENTER: CBBS, which is the Center for Bicultural Bilingual Studies at MIT, has kindly asked me to introduce Professor Hagege to you this afternoon. And I feel extremely honored and privileged to do so.

So some of you may have listened to him last night. And if you have, and have come back, it's because you know that you are in for a treat again. And if you have not yet listened to him and heard him, you will soon find out how fortunate you are to be here and how fortunate we are to have Professor Hagege speak to us on campus.

But first let me say just a few words about him. He's an internationally renowned linguist who was born and raised in Tunis. And ever since he was a child, he told us yesterday, he was drawn to languages. And he himself speaks-- I just asked him how many languages he spoke, and he told me, I don't know. Haven't counted them. So anyway, at least 10, maybe 12. Who knows? But many. Many.

So he has written many, many books and articles ranging from very scholarly works, two about generative grammar, two works on the origins of languages as well as the social and cultural impact of language. And all this being the result of a tireless combination of theoretical research and fieldwork. And Professor Hagege is a man who never tires, he tells us, and never rests.

And since 1988 he has titulaire de la chaire de theorie linguistique au College de France. And he has received many, many awards, among which, in 1995, the Medaille d'Or du CNRS, which is a French award given to people who have given only to people who have contributed exceptionally to research and [INAUDIBLE] accomplishments.

And of course, the number of you here, the number of people here, is also a testament to that as well. Plus, you will discover, as something you may not yet know, that Professor Hagege, on top of everything else, is a thoroughly delightful man.

So his most recent book, a widely acclaimed one which is entitled Halte a la morte des langues, and which is, by the way, about to be translated in English and published by Stanford University Press, is a [FRENCH], is a call for action, if you will, a wake up call about the catastrophic-- at least that's his own word-- impact the disappearance of languages has on our overall human, social, cultural, and intellectual heritage.

His topic afternoon is English As a Global Language: A Threat or Myth? It's a topic that no doubt arouses quite a bit of interest in those who feel sometimes passionately, the way the French do in particular, that their own language is being threatened by what is often perceived as the linguistic and cultural imperialism, quote, of English.

I say quote because this is a word that Professor Hagege uses himself, and I hope you don't think it's too polemic a word to use, but you will tell us. Anyway, and I suspect that this is a topic that most of you here are interested in, since you are here.

Anyway, in his book Halte a la morte des langues, Professor Hagege writes, and I quote, in French first, then English, [FRENCH].

Feebly translated, it might be useful to ask oneself what is lost when languages die. The part of genius that is deposited within each of the languages is large enough that when some die, it can be called catastrophic, and that what disappears is forever lost to our universal well of humanity. So it is about this [INAUDIBLE] relationship between language, culture, and humanity that Mr. Claude Hagege, Professor Claude Hagege, will to speak to us today. And within the framework of the topic, is English as a global language threat-- threat or myth? Is that right?

AUDIENCE: No. [INAUDIBLE].

PRESENTER: OK. English as Global Language: Real or Imagined Threat? I'm sorry. [INAUDIBLE] So he will speak for about an hour at most.

HAGEGE: I would say so. That's fine.

PRESENTER: And since he speaks so many languages, maybe you could ask some of these questions in Arabic, Russian.

HAGEGE: Yes. I will reply to any question asked in Chinese, Arabic, Russian, Spanish, Italian, except English.

PRESENTER: Well, anyway it is high time that [SPEAKING FRENCH] Professor Hagege.

HAGEGE: Before starting, with respect to the question you asked, I did not answer immediately. But I reflected, I thought of your question, and now I have a kind of reply.

PRESENTER: To which question?

HAGEGE: How many languages you speak. Well, so in order to answer this question of how many languages I speak, I think of my old rabbi in my childhood. He said, when someone you don't know, someone who might be a foe-- which is not your case, by any means-- asks you a question, he said with a quite Jewish, Yiddish intonation, answer with another question.

So since you asked that question, I will answer what do you mean by speaking a language? If you mean how many languages do you write, do you give talks in, do you use to write books without necessarily speaking them, and if you mean languages do you use when you are in love of someone, the answer will vary according to these different circumstances.

PRESENTER: Thank you.

HAGEGE: What's the title of this talk?

PRESENTER: Are you serious?

HAGEGE: Partly. Thank you. Oh, yes. I might make the wrong talk. Whether we monitor the veritable army of English speaking econo-technical or specialist advisors and representatives, or whether we examine the [INAUDIBLE] of English publications, films, radio and television programs, literacy programs, and educational opportunities, it is becoming increasingly clear that non-English mother tongue countries are significantly active in each of these connections. Nor is their involvement merely that of third world recipients of Western largesse.

True third world nations are themselves fostering massive efforts via and on behalf of English. On the other hand, however, equally massive programs via English are being conducted by the Soviet Union-- by the Russians, let us say-- the Arab world, and mainland China, world powers that have their own well-developed standard languages and that normally oppose various political, philosophical, and economic goals of the English mother tongue worlds.

Whereas the international and intranational rules of French also continue to be fostered, as do, to a lesser degree, such rules for Spanish, Russian, German, Portuguese, and so forth, such efforts are conducted exclusively by current francophone, hispanohablantes, and so on nations, or by countries under French, Spanish, and so on cultural, political, or economic domination. Similarly, English is massively employed particularly in higher level governmental technological and educational pursuits by countries under former or current Anglo-American domination.

However, English today has surpassed the charmed circle of Anglo-American econo-political control, and is being fostered both by its opponents and by its third parties. English has become a major medium of indigenous elites, native foreigners, of tourism, foreign foreigners, of popular media, of technical publications, of the metaphor of mastery, of teenage slang, and even of language planning models and anti-models, all of other worlds. While the omnipresence of English also adds to the opposition to English, it obviously fosters the growth of indigenous non-native varieties.

Finally, never before has any one language been so simultaneously sought after and regulated so that it would grow yet stay in its place, that is, be used only in functions for which it was authoritatively desired. Thus, if the continued spread and growth of English is one aspect of the current international social and linguistic balance of power, another such aspect is the recurring need to control, regulate, or tame their spreads.

We more or less consider that today, whatever the total number, non-native users of English outnumber the native users. The current sociolinguistic profile of English may be viewed in terms of three circles, more or less concentric circles. The so-called inner circle, as proposed by [INAUDIBLE] in research he did on this topic, refers to the traditional cultural and linguistic basis of English. It is made of either USA, the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

Then we have a outer circle, which is made of Bangladesh, Ghana, India, Kenya, Malaysia, Nigeria, Pakistan, Philippines, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Tanzania, Zambia. And finally, what we call the expanding circle, which contains China, Egypt, Indonesia, Israel, Japan, Korea, Nepal Saudi Arabia, Taiwan, Russia, Zimbabwe.

The numerical profile is impressive indeed. Even if we use a conservative estimates of the use of English, that is, approximately 800 millions, about 57% are non-native users. The optimistic figure of two billion users, of course, increases the percentage significantly.

However, the term users is rather tricky, particularly in the non-native context. The vagueness of its use is somewhat reduced by restricting it to educated speakers, though by the use of the term two, we are opening a can of worms. The result of this spread is that formally and functionally, English now has multicultural identities. The term English does not capture the sociolinguistic reality. I will propose later another term which probably does.

Such former colonies as Bangladesh, Botswana, Brunei, British colonies, Burma, Cameroon-- British and French-- Ethiopia, Fiji, Gambia, Ghana, India, Israel, Kenya, Lesotho, Liberia, and many others are among the members of the Anglo English speaking world today, and of course they contribute to increase this number.

What are the phases of spread of English today in the contemporary world? Now after having studied the situation, and what I call the three circles, I am studying the phases of spread. The English language and its literature moved toward multiplicity in three broad sweeps to, first, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland; second, North America, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa; and third, Asia, Africa, the West Indies, the Pacific, and other geographical pockets.

Important for my present purpose in this rough chronology of some 500 years are the generalized factors distinguishing each movement. In the first, the language spread by arms, politics, and culture as part of an assimilative process through rearranged fiefdoms, principalities, and kingdoms of Anglo-Saxon Norman hegemonies over the Celts.

The Irish, for instance, have hardly had difficulty with the English language, only with the English regime. And lest we forget, at the setting of the sun, the greatest English wits have been Irish. Moreover, many of them live today in the America, or their descendants. The difference were part of a symbiotic relationship arising from a large measure of shared culture, if not of shared politics.

In the second movement, language and culture spread as English speakers spread. Major institutions of identity were transferred, at times replicated, and grew. Strong, constant contact with England, at times paradoxical, maintained bonds that survived such varied and chronologically separate happenings as the American War of Independence, the Boer War in South Africa, the reaction in Australia and New Zealand when Britain joined the EEC very recently, and South Africa's expulsion from the Commonwealth, also very recently.

Now if I try to reach a kind of assessment by comparing the progress of English with the progress of other cultures in the past, let me mention the case of Greek and Latin. Greek, in the period of Hellenism, carried the culture of intellectualism in science, philosophy, and art and became a must for the educated from Rome to Asia Minor.

Latin is resuscitated in the Carolingian period in the eighth and ninth centuries for the necessities of ecclesiastic and mundane administration, and for seven or eight centuries, remains the vehicle of administration and of written communication in the Western world. Their chivalric culture of medieval aristocracy, rising in Provence in France, carries these languages often not clearly separable over the Western world and beyond, from England to the Crusader states.

Renaissance Italy brings us into the modern world with the educated culture who combines the two traditions of the humanist and the knight. Italian is part of this equipment. And French, again, in the 18th and 19th centuries, spreads through the innumerable courts modeled after Versailles, and the language of the court survives as the language of international diplomacy, sifting down into the bourgeoisie and remaining a distinctive mark of that bourgeoisie far beyond Europe in Latin America, the Middle East, and Africa.

Ours is a day, as opposed to all that, of American English. And you may know that as early as 780, John Adams made a remarkable statement. He proved to be prophetic when he said English-- that is, American English-- is destined to be in the next and succeeding centuries-- the next, for him, was the 19th, and succeeded by the 20th and our century. So he said English is destined to be in the next and succeeding centuries, more generally, the language of the world than Latin was in the past or France is in the present age when he wrote in the end of the 18th century.

The reason, he said, is obvious, because the increasing population of America and the universal connection and correspondence with all nations forced their language into general use. What is remarkable in Adam's statement is his perceptions, at such a pristine stage, of the history of the country. Indeed, in 1780, American English is still the underdog, still a colonial substandard.

The colonial regime reaches its end, but the linguistic class system is still vigorous. A gentleman, says Princeton's President Witherspoon in 1781, will not imitate a peasant. In this diglossia-- diglossia, which is not the same as bilingualism-- British English is the high language, the prestige language, and American language is the non-prestigious low language. Loyalty to the British tradition means, linguistically, purism.

Now, are British English and American English really different from each other? The story of spoken American English, of the American colony, is indeed one of linguistic democratization. It has been in existence from before 1700, and it survived, in principle, into our days in the prestige accorded to our relatively integrated American vernacular. I speak as if I were myself an American, which is not the case by any means.

Dr. Benjamin Rush, signer of the Declaration of Independence, rejects the British paradigm. He writes, "The present is the age of simplicity of writing in America." And Noah Webster, well-known Noah Webster, to whom language was national, as national as customs, habits, and governments, sensed early in 1789 a divergence of the language of North America from the future language of England. Webster was, so to speak, the discoverer of the national language of the United States.

Now to what extent can we say or maintain that British English and American English are different? Linguistically speaking, these two variants of English, British and American, are far more similar than they are different. While BE, British English, and AE, American English, each possesses its own range of local dialectical variants, educated usage is by and large sufficiently similar for easy intercommunication.

At the level of grammar, there are remarkably few differences of consequence, though there are a number of trivial differences of the type in hospital, in British English, in the hospital, in American English. The book will be published on Friday in British, and it will be published Friday in American. I suppose so, at least. I don't know if this is your collected usage.

Again, American English, I already had my breakfast. British English, I've already had or got my breakfast, which I must confess, to me, as a European, is much more elegant than American English. Or do you have your passport with you? Yes I do, in American English. British English, have you got your passport with you? Yes, I have. And so forth.

These are minor differences, I think. They cannot lead us to decide that there is a great difference between the two norms, the British and the American norm. As far as phonetic pronunciation is concerned, we have differences.

I must say that I, as a European, a Frenchman, having, as you can see, a very pro-English, did not understand the Americans at the beginning. First time when I met some, when they pronounced intervocalic t's, I mean t between two vowels, because when I heard the Americans saying a man or a woman who writes, a person who is waiting, for a thing I am referring to, I heard a writer, [INAUDIBLE] matter exactly as if they were speaking of a rider, a wedding, and a matter.

Of course, the pronunciation is in fact not a D, but what we call in our phonetic terms a one flap R. The pronunciation-- I suppose. I don't know. I can't imitate it the right way. But I suppose the pronunciation of pretty, a [INAUDIBLE], is pretty, pretty with a [INAUDIBLE], pretty. I must confess-- excuse me for this aggressiveness-- that this sounds extremely vulgar to my ear.

Pretty, which is British, is the right pronunciation, of course. Well, it's the British one. So we cannot say that we have here two different languages. At the maximum we have two norms. Although there have been many, many studies devoted to study into to what extent English and American are two different languages, there are some usages which I recall were well-known.

I suppose that, according to studies which have been written on this subject, British English says so long as you're happy, we'll stay. American English, as long as you are happy, we'll stay. Strange as it may seem in British English, as strange as it may seem in American. Shall I take it in British, should I take it in American. I wish I had done it in British. I wish I would have done it, but probably not quite true. Or try other kinds of vocabulary particularity, I think, to cater for is British, and to cater to is American. So this is a lexical difference.

Lorry is immediately identified as British, as opposed to truck, which is identified as American. Nappy and diaper, sitting room and living room, dustbin and garbage can, chemist shop and drugstore, and so on. But of course, all these are no more than details and cannot-- I also have blue movie for pornographic film, nudie for film with much nudity. They cannot suffice to make up, decide that we have to do with two different languages.

So leaving the subject of whether English and American are two different languages-- they are just two norms-- I will switch to another one which is more interesting. What are exactly the kind of situations in which people are when they are candidates to learning English? First, we can have to do with an acquisitional aspect of the problem. In acquisitional terms, we will speak our first language, second language, and foreign language. But we have also another possibility, which is to use a sociocultural parameter. And in that respect, we will speak of transplanted and non-transplanted speakers of English.

We also have a motivational parameter according to which we can speak of integrative and instrumental access to English. And finally, we have a functional parameter, according to which we have national language and international language. Such are the parameters which I would propose as useful to decide what we have to do with.

Now the non-native varieties of English. This is what I would like to treat now. I announced that it is not possible to speak any longer of English. What should we speak of? The term which has been proposed more and more by sociolinguists is a pluralization of the adjective English. They speak of Englishes, and these Englishes are the various forms that English takes, according to the country.

The non-native varieties of English-- because Englishes refers to these non-native varieties-- they furnish fertile and relatively untapped grounds for study of the processes of sociolinguistic change. These varieties have grown up in recent times as second languages in multilingual former colonies of Great Britain. Hence the alternative terms New Englishes, Third World Englishes, and also NNVE, the famous NNVE, which means non-native varieties of English.

[INAUDIBLE] NNVE, it refers to the Englishes used in many former colonies of Britain or the United States in which English is not a native language, but an acquired second language.

The last area to come under colonization whether as British colonies or as protectorates of Australia or New Zealand, were the South Pacific Islands, Tonga, Samoa, Nauru, Fiji, Papua New Guinea, Tuvalu, Ellis Islands, the Gilberts, and the Solomon Islands, which were colonized in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. All are independent now, while the Cook Islands, American Samoa, [INAUDIBLE], and the [INAUDIBLE] are not yet free. They are, let us say, without polemicizing, territories under American influence. All these territories have English as a second language.

Now we can also speak of IVEs, to wit, indigenized varieties of English. And these indigenized varieties of English are more or less the same as the NNVE. And they have been neglected very long. And only recently have the linguists and sociolinguists become aware of the importance of studying these varieties.

So what I would like to do now is to propose a study of some of these variants. Let me first of all mention the Indian variants, which are among the most important number. A wide range of styles can be found in a small book. [INAUDIBLE], the 19-year-old illiterate sweeper who is the title character, often seems quite childlike in thought as well as in speech. But he represents what kind of usage many Indians, less educated Indians, have of English.

Occasionally the reader encounters dialogues such as this. "My father is ill," replied [INAUDIBLE], "so I am going to sweep the roads in town and the temple courtyard in his stead." So he uses ill, which seems probably a bit odd to a native speaker, ill. And he says also, in his stead instead of instead. He also used Indian words such as [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], which means honor, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] which means merchant caste, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], which is Indian sweets, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], which means England abroad. In fact, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] is an Arabic word which has been borrowed through Islamisation by the Indians and which refers to a country. In this particular case it refers to England. And also [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], which is an Indian word meaning native or indigenous.

This is a sample of Indian English, but of course, I might mention many other ones. Another one I take from simply the titles of newspapers in which almost 3/4 of the title are made of Indian words which are not understandable to a native English speaker of United Kingdom or United States.

For example, in the rising in Nepal in Kathmandu, 1978, "Panchayat system upholds ideals of human rights." In the Hindustan Times, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] are gas plants. In the Bangladesh Observer, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] branch [INAUDIBLE]. In [INAUDIBLE], a journal from Lahore, December 1979, "[INAUDIBLE] calls for attack."

In the Sunday Times of Singapore, Indian Muslims are [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]. In the Statesman of New Delhi, GNU, [INAUDIBLE] National University, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], and so on. Of course, this is understandable only in an Indian context.

A much more extreme case is when syntax itself is Indian while the vocabulary is English. For example, in an example I have here, a linguist overheard a young female Fiji Indian sales clerk. She said, "Sheila, account book use [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], I think." Account book use is the reverse order as opposed to that of English, and [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] is to make. So it means, in fact, in translation, Sheila used the account book, I think. And in order to translate used, she uses the word [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] to make, and she put the object complement before instead of after, as is the usage in English. This is typical of a new syntax, a new world order, which, of course, is totally un-understandable in English of native speakers.

Now let me give you some other examples. But before I switch to the examples-- well, another one is the example of Malaysian English, in which we find such usages as this one. In an article in a newspaper, "Equally certainly, 25 authors and two editors do not know enough to write this book. And by virtue of knowledges and viewpoints, they may not provide as cohesive a book as a single author."

Another example, "Parents' eagerness to teach their six-month-old children the pre-linguistic routine, bye bye, is one evidence of their desire to show that their baby is on its way to being a socialized person." I think knowledges in the plural is un-American. And I think one evidence with one before the mass abstract noun evidence is also un-American.

To some extent, this usage is in Malaysia, a part of the world in which British English was more influential than American English, might be borrowed from British usage, in which it is possible to pluralize abstract or mass nouns, since, for example, in British journals, we find things which would probably be frowned upon in American English, such as intimidations in the plural, or other abstract word nouns used in the plural, too. These examples are mentioned here in order to show what kind of Asianization of English takes place in Malaysia.

Now let me mention examples of Africanization of English. This is taken from a letter, a personal letter to which I had access some years ago. An inhabitant of Nigeria writes to his relatives, "With much pleasure and respect, I inscribe you this few lines-- this few lines-- and with the hope that it will meet you in good condition of health." This seems to be literally translated from [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], the language of this Nigerian child.

Other examples taken from people living in Kenya and Tanzania. "Let strong football team be organized." "He won by overwhelming majority," without the article. "She gave me tough time." "I am going to cinema." "I am going to post office." Of course, these speakers have as a native tongue a language which doesn't have any article in this context. So they simply transfer their habits into their English.

"I may continue with the interview or examine few more applications." Or many other. Now another, which is taken from the southeast of Nigeria, where [? Igbo, ?] a very well-known African language, is spoken, in which I overheard this. "'You'll see red,' said the angry carpenter to the frightened boy." Another example. "To my surprise, I found him, the driver, resting on the steer and fall asleep. As a result, he lost control of the steer." Another sentence. "I ask her to dance, but she cut me." Another example. "Thy must pay the town council."

So these usages are taken from African languages, from Igbo in this particular case. To see red means it's a threats to harm or punish a person. The steer here means a steering wheel, and the verb to cut in the sentence on I ask her to dance, but she cut me means she refused to dance with me. So this is another examples of the way English is Africanized in this context.

Other examples still. "You to be careful with these been to boys." What does been to mean? Been to is a special African expression which is taken from she has been to Britain. And it refers to anyone who has traveled overseas, particularly to Britain.

Another example. "We stopped at [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] to buy some bush meat, which means game, in fact, in native English. And "I saw your my dear. I saw your my dear at the church. Your my dear [INAUDIBLE] means your girlfriends or your boyfriends, my dear being put together in order to constitute an expression which corresponds to girl or boyfriend in English.

"Ia have been going to the small room a lot, sir" means to the toilets. And "I was a tight friend of your sister." Tight friend, of course, does not correspond to anything clear for a native speaker of English, and it means a close or intimate friend. It's almost literally translated from African languages.

I could multiply the languages, but I will limit myself to some more only. [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] Swahili in Republic of Congo also have many uses which do not correspond to the English American norm. For example, "Don't drag your feet, son. Walk quick, quick." The reduplication of quick means very quickly.

"Life is a big challenge. You have to take it small small." Or "You are eating too fastly. Take your time and eat slow slow." This way of reduplicating adverbs is simply the formation in many African languages of the superlative, or intensive, which is a grammatical process, of course, unknown in English, although it's not quite unknown in spoken English. But it does not correspond to the written norm of English.

Other examples. "He's my bench man," meaning he's my crony or intimate friend. "She bluffs too much," bluff meaning here, being arrogant or trying to beguile people. Or "The fellow is too boisterous too much," the storekeeper said. Here boisterous mean bad tempered or quarrelsome.

Other examples. "I was coupled at the dance." It means I found a dancing partner. Or "Are you [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] for Nigeria yet?" Are you homesick, it means. Or "I opened the door and visualized a very familiar face." It means I saw, to visualize a familiar face. "Sorry not to have been chance to ride before." This is also an Africanism, and many other of the same type.

Voice out for voice. Discuss about for discuss. Congratulate for for congratulate on. And many others. An anecdote, of which I was myself an actor, a testimony, is one when one important personality in Nigeria, while visiting a department of linguistics, was told that this department was interested in research on Nigerian English.

He immediately commented that that was a waste of time as there was no such thing as Nigerian English, he said. But a few minutes later, he said, on being interrupted, "Let me land." And to land is the Nigerian equivalent of let me finish. So he himself, of course, spoke a variant of Nigerian English.

Now we also have Chinese English. And it began as a pidgin in Chinese as soon as the beginning of the 19th century. And this Chinese English was very different from standard English. For example, consider the following sentence, which I tried to translate. "Tailor, my have got one piece plenty handsome silk. My want you make one nice evening dress." Here the my is used for me.

And this kind of creolization, in which the possessive is the same as the personal pronoun, is typical of many Creoles. Although not universally creole, it corresponds to a regularization of the morphology. And it makes it much more clear than it is in a language such as English, in which we differentiate between word classes, which are not really necessary in terms of economy.

Another example taken from China, from Chinese. In Chinese we have examples like this one. Do some people understand Chinese? Well, may I mention in Chinese, [CHINESE].

This is a structure which is directly inspired by English. It puts the object complement in the wrong place, and it makes an inversion, which is not Chinese. But all the words are literally Chinese. So word order can be transformed by the model of Chinese even when the words themselves, the lexicon, remain something quite Chinese. This is another example of the way languages are Americanized.

Japanese is also an interesting example. Mori Arinori. Who was the first Minister of Education of the new modern Japan, claimed that "I cite our meager language, which can never be of any use outside of our islands, is doomed to yield to the domination of the English tongue, especially when the power of steam and electricity will have pervaded the land." He proposed to replace Japanese, bluntly, by English.

But the Japanese did not do that. What did they do? They are probably the one, among the countries of the world, in which the borrowed word from English are the most numerous. It is extraordinary how many borrowed term-- of course, Japanized with a the phonetic exist, in nowadays Japanese. They are English, but not identifiable, not recognizable to someone who does not know their origin.

For example, we have [JAPANESE]. [JAPANESE], which is playboy, pronounced the Japanese way. [JAPANESE], as you know, are one and the same consonant in Japanese. And also, the Japanese is a consonant vowel, consonant vowel, consonant vowel language. So it cannot say playboy. It is transformed into [JAPANESE]. And also magical power, magical power for magic power. Also, [JAPANESE] for Dutch wife. Dutch wife is an inflatable bed partner.

Other examples of Japanese English are [JAPANESE]. [JAPANESE] is love to make, as you know, in Japanese. [JAPANESE] is a well-known Japanese verb. And they take an English word, which is, in this case, the up, preposition up, and they put [JAPANESE] after, and [JAPANESE], which means it to make up, means, in fact, to improve or go up.

And we have many other such uses in Japanese today. We also have [JAPANESE], Christmas, which is Christmas. We have [JAPANESE], [JAPANESE], which is McDonald's, [JAPANESE], which is restaurant, and even [JAPANESE] nonsense, [JAPANESE], [? heretic ?] grotesque nonsense. [JAPANESE], which is ole miss to refer to a spinster. [JAPANESE], mass communication. [JAPANESE] for one piece dress. [JAPANESE] for table speech, after dinner speech. [JAPANESE] for at home. And even [JAPANESE], for I love you. These are some ways of Japanese transformation of English or Japanization of English.

Now this is all the more astonishing as Japan was never a British or American territory. Japan was never colonized by the British, who elsewhere left a linguistic legacy in the form of civil service requirements, government legislation, or a prestige language. Such factors must have encouraged people to become fluent in spoken and written English. English was never the language of the Japanese public school system, though there were intellectual incentives to acquire at least a reading knowledge.

Most important, Japan has never had the cultural and linguistic pluralism which made English convenient as a lingua franca, at least, or a national language at most. In short, English in Japan never became institutionalized. However, that developed a kind of Japanized English, of which I give you some samples.

This also reaches European languages. And since the matter is enormous, I will content myself worth mentioning German borrowing such as English words which are directly introduced in the context of an article written in German. We have, for example, hi-fi, aftershave lotion. We have brain washing for [GERMAN], spearhead for [GERMAN], climber for [GERMAN] involved for [GERMAN], and other such examples.

Let us, if you don't mind, switch now to French. French has twice been a world language itself, in the 12th century, as you may know, and again from the 17th to the 19th century. But twice it has also been on the passive end of the process-- in the 16th century, when the giant of the Renaissance, Italy, covered the west with Italianisms, and now in the 20th century, when we have the impact of Americanisms.

The Italian episode, although different in certain ways from the American, is of considerable interest to us. Since it has concluded, it allows us to evaluate from a historical perspective those facets which, in the present day case of American English, are still in the midst of evolution. The impact of the Italian Renaissance hurt the French pride. It hurt what humanistic tradition labeled the Hercule Gallois, the Gallic Hercules.

In states where citizens feel a political cultural inferiority, language turns into their foremost symbol of national defense, defense phrasing-- thank you. Linguistic patriots consider borrowing anti-patriotic. [INAUDIBLE], the great sociolinguist of the times, wrote in 1549 "The same natural law which requires everyone to defend his birthplace likewise obliges us to watch over the dignity of our language. Similarly, the foreign language turns into a symbol of the foreigner himself. Since he is disliked, his language will be disliked."

Now the battle of the French intelligentsia against Americanisms is not devolved from a certain conservative political and cultural attitude. The anti-attitude symbolizes a belief in tradition and norm, in elitism, in intellectual skepticism toward technology.

This is the opinion of many English-speaking linguists. But so far, I agree. But one of them adds, "Conservatism in France, linguistic conservatism, symbolizes an anti-democratic reaction against the women, the young, and mass culture. It symbolizes anti-Americanism and a rejection of multilingualism and multiculturalism. The attitude against Americanisms, in short, reflects the struggle against the cultural and social revolution which marks the decline of the traditional French civilization. This is what [INAUDIBLE], an American sociolinguist, writes.

I must say I don't agree. Why? Because, in fact, the way many linguists and many intellectual writers and so on in France react against what they feel as an invasion of American words, or as a pure and simple substitution of English to French in many contexts, is not a reaction which is limited to right milieus. Leftists are also concerned that this attitude.

In general, what we aim at when defending French and when trying-- not only in a defensive attitude but also in an offensive one-- to promote it is to propose other models because we feel that in many cases, the domination of the world by one and the same language is not something to be recommended because it results in a world in which we have nothing to be [INAUDIBLE] about, just one language, one culture.

Of course, this is just an idealized possible future which will not, I think, take place. But it is the thing against which people who want to preserve multiculturalism, multilingualism, fight. And I think that to that extent, they are not wrong. So I will come back to this later. It was just a reflection on the way part of the French cultural world reacts to the pressure of English.

Throughout the non-English mother tongue world, English is currently associated with practical and powerful pursuits. This becomes evident with the image of French, and on the other hand, with that of local integrative languages that have been fairly recently standardized. Relative to the latter, English is viewed as less suitable for military operations. Local soldiers do not know that much English yet. For lying, joking, cursing, or bargaining-- for bargaining, English is not adapted at all-- and for unremediated prayer.

On the other hand, English is currently viewed as more suitable than local integrative languages for science, international diplomacy, industry, commerce, high oratory, and pop songs, of course. Now the image of English vis a vis French is even more revealing in that the former has risen and the latter has begun to fall in the international balance of power. In the third world, excluding former anglophone and francophone colonies, French is considered more suitable than English for only one function.

This is what Joshua Fishman, a well-known sociolinguist of Yeshiva University writes. I don't agree, but I mention what he says. French is considered more suitable than English for only one function, which is opera. It is considered the equal of English for reading good novels or poetry, and for personal prayer, the local integrity of language being widely viewed as superior to both English and French in this connection, which is obvious.

But outside the realm of aesthetics, the ugly duckling, Joshua Fishman writes, reigns supreme. French is widely viewed as more beautiful, more musical, pleasant, rhythmic, refined, intimate, pure, soothing, graceful, tender, and lovely. But English is viewed as richer, more precise, more logical more sophisticated, and more competence-related. I must say this is a widespread prejudice which, to me, is on the brink of being quite ridiculous. Even under the pen of Joshua Fishman, who is a well-known, prestigious linguist, I think this should not be written.

Let me just tackle one aspect of this subject, which is precision. You may know that professional linguists like me generally do not commit themselves in debates such as to what extent is one language more precise than the other one because the notion of precision is a relative notion. And for me, for any-- I suppose for any professional language, the most precise language is the one which is native to you, to each of you. Of course, there is no precision in itself as an abstract concept.

However, I would like to adduce an example, which I have recently discovered, which might be interesting if I proposed it to you to your thinking. And in that case, it seems that in a very politicized context, French is reacted to as much more precise than English. This refers to Resolution 242 of the new United Nations. You may know that the Arabian countries have chosen the French version of the treaties, and Israel has chosen the British, the English version. Why?

The British-- the English version says, we recommend. Probably they said, we order withdrawal immediate-- it was in 1968 after the famous Six Days War. "We recommend withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from occupied territories." This is the English version.

In English, when you have a plural term like territories, you may not use the article. So "from occupied territories" is a normal English way of saying. And "from the occupied territories" could be said. But in this particular case-- I am not a native speaker of English, I don't know-- but it seems to me that this lack of article is the more natural way of speaking.

So withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from occupied territories. In French, as opposed to that, we cannot avoid using the article. We must choose either the article or no article. So this a retrait-- retrait, withdrawal, to retract-- des troupes Israelienne-- of Israeli armed troops-- des territoires occupes. De means from the, or de territoire occupe. If I say des territories occupes, which is a choice, it means of all the territories which have been occupied by the Israelis. If I say de territoire occupe, it means of some of these territories.

And in French we have to choose. So the French version, which is the one recommended by the Arabs, has chosen des territoires occupes, which means that Israel has to withdraw his troops from all occupied territories, whereas English allows one to interpret in ambiguous terms either as from some of these territories or from all of them.

This is an example. We might mention many other ones, we met also, because, of course, this is very relative matter-- mention examples in which it is English, which is more precise. It depends on the kind of circumstance. French was-- used to be in the past, is no more now-- the language of diplomacy. I do not, as a professional linguist, make part of those who purport that French is a clear, precise language. As I said, to each of us, the clearest is the one we master most.

But what I can call your attention to is that in certain contexts, like this one, which is a very a politicized, very political context, the French version can turn out to be the more precise one. And so what Fishman writes here is, to some extent, wrong.

He adds, "English is less loved but more used. French is more loved but less used. Nature abhors a vacuum, which is a medieval expression, well-known. As the functional load of a formerly prestigious variety declines, affect rushes in to take up the slack. The non-Francophone world has nothing but love for French," he says, "and in the cruel real world, that is a sign of a weakness.

The displacement of Irish is suffused with love. The replacement of Yiddish, which is a well-known matter for Joshua Fishman, is accompanied by panagyrics as to its intimacy and authenticity. English gets along without love, without sighs, without tears, and almost without affect of any kind.

This is not true. There is an affective access to English for many speakers of it, which are not native speakers of English, but we have acquired it. So I don't agree that English is something just as unmarked as Fishman writes. English gets along without love, without sighs, without tears, almost without affect of any kind. In a world where econo-technical superiority is what really counts, the heightened aesthetic affective image of French smacks of weakness, innocence, and triviality.

This is the opinion voiced by a well-known social linguist. I am not sure that many linguists outside myself would agree with it. Now this situation which I have tried to describe, according to which English is under the form of native English, in one case-- a minority, of course-- and in another case, in the form of non-native varieties or indigenized varieties of English, or of Englishes in the plural-- this general situation is viewed or reacted to by a great part of intellectuals all over the world as something not completely acceptable.

Why? Because they sense, they feel that having a language which serves the role of being the second language for people whose language is not known to each other when they are dialoguing is not necessarily something good. When it turns out that this language belongs to countries-- Canada, United States, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa-- which turn out to be among the most powerful in the world, this makes English much less acceptable than if it were not the case that it belongs to these countries.

This, of course, is to a large extent a political matter. And as a result, people not necessarily accept such a situation. And I would like to mention a text which was submitted to me recently by an American university professor. He is American. The text will sounds very strange coming from an American. But what he says might be interesting to mention. And I received this on internet one month ago.

He says, "According to the latest figures supplied by Global Reach, English content of all internet messages worldwide dropped below 50%. It is clear that as the net goes global, it also goes multilingual. The internet was born in English, but it has become quite obvious that those who attempted to promote it through the use of English only slowed down its development rather than accelerating it.

Once again, we are discovering that localization is the key for the international dissemination of any tool, and more especially when that tool is designed to facilitate communication. It is well-known that anyone who is serious about pursuing commercial endeavors has to use his customers' language.

This policy-- which is, by the way, I add myself, that of Germany-- to a lesser extent, much lesser extent than the French, was especially pushed by firms that sought expansion through the development of international markets. In the old days, the success of firms such as IBM, as far as the Americans are concerned, rested mostly on this approach. IBM intelligently translated all technical manuals, offered seminars and training in over 20 languages. IBM went as far as translating pushbutton levels on its hardware and even coining new [INAUDIBLE] words.

That was the case, for instance, with ordinateur, which is now the French word for computer. I must intervene this is quite wrong. Ordinateur was not invented by IBM. It was invented by a French Latinist, Latin professor in the Sorbonne, Jean [? Perret, ?] who proposed it to the AFNOR, Academie Francaise de Terminologie, and who said, instead of computeur, which was beginning then to introduce itself in French, we should use a word which shows that the machine in question is able to ordinate in the meaning of organize together many data, many elements of information.

And the best word for that is ordinateur-- which he was a Catholic, and of course he thought of ordination, which means the consecration of a priest. But he took it from the ecclesiastical vocabulary. But ordinateur was a success. And we know, because this has a date and there are documents, that ordinateur was proposed by this French professor of Latin and not by IBM.

But this does not stop me from recognizing that IBM has proposed many felicitous neologisms. The success of Microsoft, this professor adds, mostly relied on the same approach. As far back as 1995, Microsoft had already 60% of its market outside English speaking countries. Again, few people and analysts note that this tremendous success rested less on the quantity of Microsoft products than the capability of the company to sell in its customers' tongues.

The internet is supposed to facilitate international communication, not to preclude it. Yet it is surprising to find out that many internet users believe that restricting expression to English only on the net is necessary to bridge our differences and make it possible for us to fully understand one another. Is English really adequate in this context? English is the native tongue to a bare 6% of the world population. And even though it is widely studied, over 70% of the world population has no knowledge of it.

If 20% or so of the world population has some knowledge of English as a second language, those of us who travel a lot can testify that fluency in English in non-English speaking countries is just wishful thinking. It applies to me, as you can see. If English may be understood well enough to us for us to check into a hotel, order a meal, or tell a cabbie where to take us, it does not often allow us to go much beyond addressing our most immediate needs.

True, English has been widely adopted as the international language for science. But can those of us who attend international conferences honestly tell us that foreigners can make themselves understood in English as well as we can? Haven't we noticed that apart from a few exceptions, even highly educated professionals whose mother tongue is not English have a much harder time to address our questions, and more especially when their work is being questioned and criticized?

Are we blind to the post-conference syndrome that affects most of the participants who speak English as a second language when they congregate and regroup as soon as the plenary session is over to communicate freely in their own native tongues? In the hard sciences and in technology, when PowerPoint slides and transparencies can compensate for the lack of fluency to present an experimental setup, a pilot plant, or a bunch of equations to model physical phenomena, English does not seem to be much of an impediment.

But can we really expect a top level scholar in psychology, in social science, in history, or in literature be able to present his research in a fully effective way and in a manner as convincing and persuasive as if he was conducting-- I would have written as if he were-- as if he were. But the American write as if he was-- as if he was conducing his talk in his own native tongue. Of course not.

The widely known Jacques Derrida used to give his talks in English when he traveled to the US until his American audiences told him to switch back to French. Why? Even though they did not fully master the French language, Derrida was far more understandable to them in his own native talk, and even more so as they were already familiar with his work. Language is not neutral, and translation implies switching over to a different system of coordinates.

By adopting English as it means for real international communication, I will necessarily have to adapt to the English speaking psyche and use references that are common to English speaking countries and Anglo American culture, thereby losing, in the process, the best of my message. As a minority, what right do native English speakers have to foist English upon a world majority? Can we ever expect non-English speakers to master English as well as those who have it as their native tongue?

Most of the time, a basic knowledge of German, French, and English was sufficient in the olden days. Then, in the 19th century, the free flow of scientific and technical information went unhampered by multilingualism. On the contrary, it seems to have boosted creativity. Scientific creativity feeds on language and language structures, as the linguist Benjamin Lee Whorf has clearly shown. A scientist who gives up his own native tongue to conduct his work can never reach full potential, and often he will be limited to technical contributions only, even though he is able to do much more.

The tremendous variety of languages appears less awesome when we delineate language families inside which the acquisition of another idiom can be made relatively effortless. 100 years ago in Europe, serious students studied two or three foreign languages, not to become fluent and interpreters, not because they were mesmerized by any superior civilization, but to be able to understand their neighbors, and mostly those who made significant contribution to their professional fields.

So he conclude by saying, "International forums and discussion groups should welcome contributions in all languages if their participants were really sticking with the best and most interesting contributions. Instead, the internet shows today incredible mediocrity. While the average citizen thinks the internet brings him the world, the serious intellectual has returned to his book, lecture halls, conferences, and head-to-head discussions and roundtable"-- I don't say that I agree fully with this-- "and roundtables that gather real, thought-challenging professionals and researchers. If people want the best from the internet, they have to invite back the best by first realizing that original thought automatically entail the use of original modes of expression."

This is the opinion voiced by someone, an American professor, who is aware or conscious of the dangers of this uniformization by English.

What would I myself propose as a conclusion in all that? I think English is, in fact, not so much a threat as it is often said to be. Why? First, because although much more English speakers than the ones to which it is native exist all over the world, it is native to a small minority of the world's.

Second, because it gives rise to new forms of languages, new Englishes, which might, by progressive transformations, yield new languages between which there would not be any communication. This is the story of Latin yielding Portuguese, Spanish, Romanian, French, and Italian, so-called Neo-Latin or romance languages. And this is the fate-- the word fate is not felicitous because it is not something bad. It is just the normal result of evolution. And this kind of transformation of languages, which come from the same trunk, the same original source, is something which has always happened in the world in space and in time.

So it has begun to happen to English, as it does happen to French also in former French colonial territories in which there are some forms of French to which I referred yesterday in a class of one of you, which are getting more and more different from French such as it is spoken in France.

So this second reason not to be anxious about the future is, for me, an important one. A third one is that English is frowned upon by those who fend for diversity, which means that many people-- not only in the so-called elites, but also in the average public-- react to the danger of uniformization, which is the result of a very dangerous pretext often provided by people who argue in favor of English, saying that when we have just one language, this allows us to communicate, this avoids a war, this avoids misunderstanding and so on.

This is not true at all. We have the example, to cite a very recent one, of former Yugoslavia in which the Croats and the Serbs have fought violently against each other although they speak more or less the same language. Today I receive many letters, threatening letters, from Zagreb, the capital of Croatia, saying, please, Professor Hagege, please all of you Western linguists, stops speaking of Serbo-Croation.

We do because Serbo-Croatian-- although for reasons of acceptable nationalism-- the Croats want to individualize themselves and to be considered a speaker of another language. It is true that Serbo-Croatian is a language, a unified one, if we use a criterion [INAUDIBLE] communication. Serbs can communicate in Serb with Croats, communicating in Croat. It is, of course, one and the same language which has regional variants like any other human language. So they speak the same language.

However, this does not stop them from fighting and from separating from each other in the beginning of the '90s. And this was a very fierce war of which you are aware, all of you. So this is just one example which, for lack of time, I give in order to demonstrate that it is not true that one and the same language is a promise of peace or this is an illusion and a prejudice against which I must react.

So in what case could English become a real danger for languages? Just in one case. If English, not content with being what it is now in many countries in the world with what I said at the beginning of this talk, I mean a second language, an indigenized variety which could exist side by side with the vernacular languages of the people.

If English, not content with being this, was substituted for the other ones in private life, in the homes of every family, if English became from the present state of a second language in many countries, which, as I said, reach much more English speakers than there wants to, to whom it is native, if it became the first language of all these countries.

In other words, if English knew the same future as Latin did when it was substituted, when the languages of the conquered Western Europe were substituted for by Latin, Gaulish disappeared that way. Etruscan also. Dacian in present day Romania, which was then Dacia, disappeared in that way. We do not know any word of these languages because Latin replaced them, and Latin was introduced not only in public life, not in the streets, but also in private life.

So the problem-- this will be my latest conclusion-- is to what extent can English be an example of the same process? I mean, is English, in the present situation of the world, a language, which can replace, by suppression, by being substituted for all these languages, other languages which are native to the people of most countries? I must say in this case only would I accept to say that English is a threat to the languages in question. I think that is not the case, and I am not sure it will ever be the case. Thank you very much.

[APPLAUSE]

I'm sorry for taking too long.

PRESENTER: Professor Hagege, will you entertain a few questions?

HAGEGE: Yes.

AUDIENCE: I have an observation and a question. The observation relates to your discussion of Fishman and his list of adjectives to describe French versus English. It occurs to me, as I was listening to that list, that it corresponds very closely to stereotypical notions of masculinity versus femininity, with France, of course, being the feminine marked object.

In listening to that, or thinking that, it reminded me of the degree to which Germany, during the Nazi period, did indeed conceive, in its political imaginary, of France as a female vessel, in effect, or series to its own vulcan, to use the ancient god imagery. And I find it somewhat ironic that Fishman is a Jew, and that he's applying these perhaps-- or it seems with no self-consciousness, which leads me to my question, which is totally naive. In your discipline of sociolinguistics-- specifically sociolinguistics--

HAGEGE: And also linguistics proper.

AUDIENCE: Yes. Yes. Well, then I said sub-discipline of sociolinguistics. Is there a German branch, in the 20th century, of scholarship that has contributed to the sub-discipline? Does some of it date from before the conclusion of World War II, and to what extent do you as sociolinguists embrace, or have you rejected, that sector of scholarship?

HAGEGE: Well, it's a good question. You said that the adjectives which qualify French and English in the text I mentioned from Joshua Fishman, represent [INAUDIBLE] thinking, which, of course, is my opinion, too. I must say that if I were a woman myself-- which is not the case, as you see-- I would think that this is an unacceptable, anti-feminist, and [INAUDIBLE] view because it's quite ridiculous to associate certain things with women and other ones with men. Women are not necessarily more tender or more and so on--more feminine in the masculine sense of the word. And men are not the contrary. This is quite an inspiration, which is quite anti-feminist, which I can't accept.

Now what is behind this kind of inspiration? You ask whether I know of German researchers, scholars who purported such a view. Is that your question?

AUDIENCE: Well, I'm just wondering what the state-- I have no idea. I'm not familiar with the discipline at all. So I'm just wondering, from a historic point of view, whether the contributions of German scholarship pre-World War II to your field.

HAGEGE: As soon as the end of the 18th century and beginning of the Romantic period, nouns such as [INAUDIBLE], the Grimm Brothers, the Schlegels, and many of the well-known German scholars-- who, by the way, were the founders of linguistics and the ones who used the word for the first time in history-- had a certain tendency, that's true, to associate language with certain psychological, cultural settings. And this is a thinking which, of course, today appears as completely obsolete and reactionary. But it dominated German thinking during a long time. This is true.

AUDIENCE: It connects with a certain metaphorics that one uses.

HAGEGE: Its formation was [INAUDIBLE] metaphoric, yes.

AUDIENCE: In light of your presentation last night, in which you yourself adopted a 19th century--

HAGEGE: In another context.

AUDIENCE: Right, in another context, a 19th century metaphor of vitalism, fully acknowledging that it didn't fit. I'm wondering if your sub-discipline inevitably has to be drawn to metaphors which are ideologically and politically freighted.

HAGEGE: I can mention a fact, which probably you know, as a testimony of the importance of the way a political power views language. I have documents, which I found some years ago, on Hitler's attitudes to Germany. He was, as you know, Austrian, and he had a very strong Austrian accent. He has a very accurate voice. I have heard his voice on records. And his Austrian accent was jeered at the beginning, jeered at, mocked, laughed at, and ridiculed-- at the beginning when he did not have power until quite later.

And as soon as he became more and more powerful, all the Germans who did not pronounce German as he did imitate his pronunciation. And in articles I have, we see that not only in phonetics, but also in morphology and in the lexicon, many words which were Hitler words were widespread in Germany during the whole Nazi period.

So I just mention this fact. I don't to what extent it responds to your query. But I just mean by that it is quite possible to politicize a form, a norm of a language, through a certain regime, and to associate a certain conception of the language to a certain regime. This is which it is little known, but assessed, and it existed. This is what took place during the Second World War. To what extent does that correspond to your--

AUDIENCE: Well, it just adds a level of interest, I think.

HAGEGE: Yes.

AUDIENCE: Actually, I wanted to ask you about a couple of words that you ed yourself. And I recognize one of them, maybe someone-- did you write the translation that you were reading of-- anyway, one word is passive, which relates to what Edward was talking about. That is, when you use the word passive, which is really a sexualized metaphor to refer to the condition of a language getting a lot of loan words from another language.

HAGEGE: Did I use the word passive myself?

AUDIENCE: Yes, you did. And in particular, for example, that's not a metaphor that normally is used to describe the post-1066 period in English, when I think many more words came in from French than ever have come into French from English. And the other word I wondered if you would talk about was one you used earlier in your talk, which is vulgar, where you--

HAGEGE: Quite subjective.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] where you characterize the sound of American English as vulgar. And I wondered how that matched up with your characterization of yourself as on the left.

HAGEGE: No, the reason is very simple. Not far to seek. I learned English from British professors. So the way they pronounced was the one I tried to imitate. And when I went for the first time in America, I was startled by the way Americans pronounced English because it was not mine. So my reaction-- vulgar, for which I apologize, was its integration. And I don't want to be aggressive. It was the way I reacted to this kind--

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] that as a register for characterizing the way the differences in speech strikes me as something that is a problem if you think of yourself as [INAUDIBLE].

HAGEGE: No, vulgar is a word-- I am quite ready to recognize-- it is a word which is completely subjective as I use it, as I said, to refer it to a part of my biography in which I discovered the way Americans pronounce English, which was not the one I have been taught that well, is the most widespread today. But I grew up in another kind of English, although, as you may observe, many of my own way of pronouncing are more or less inspired by the American way of pronouncing.

Well, the word vulgar is not a good word. And I do not use it as a scientific word. It's quite a subjective one. As far as passive is concerned, I would probably be more reluctant, more loathe to reject it for a very simple reason. It's just a matter of terminology. If by passive we mean a language which accepts or receives a great, huge amount of borrowed words, then the word is not marked more than just referring to that.

And we have many languages which, in this respect, passive-- and if you want to avoid the implications of the word passive, we will just say open to borrowing words, which is the case of many languages. Other ones, as you know-- Icelandic, for example. Fijian. By the way, both of them are language of islanders-- are not passive in this respect because they do not borrow, and they are also watched by purists who want to tap the original fund in order for them to find neologisms. They do not want to borrow.

So there is a choice. There are two adages in neology. Either we borrow great matches of words to translate [INAUDIBLE] which correspond to the modern technical word, or we exclusively resort to words from the original funds. In the case of Icelandic, Old Norse, which is the origin of all Scandinavian languages. [INAUDIBLE], as the case of Arabic. it is the same thing.

And I sometimes cite Israeli Hebrew and Arabic, in this respect, are very characteristic. When it came to designating atomic bomb, the Arabian scholars who were asked by the governments to look for a word-- because the Koran does not speak of atomic bomb-- does someone speak Arabic here? They took a root from the Koran, they took [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], which means a parcel, because the prophet says [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH].

In this context, the prophet said, you will not bring any parcel of good to the paradise if you don't follow my religion. And the word parcel, which is a Quranic word, and to that extent very prestigious, was chosen by the Arabic scholars to express atomic. Of course, it was not a good word because atomic is a Greek word which means which cannot be cut more. [INAUDIBLE] is privative, and [INAUDIBLE] is [INAUDIBLE], the Greek [INAUDIBLE] means a thing which you cannot cut further. It is the last result of a cutting operation.

But the Arabians thought that they had to, instead of borrowing the word atomic bomb, to take a word from the Koran because it is respectable, whereas the Israelis adopted-- was just a kind of phonetic transformation-- bomba atomica without any further ado. This means that there is a kind of political attitude behind the choice of neologisms.

Either we are passive in the sense which I [INAUDIBLE] myself to use, and means open to borrowing without much hesitation, not reluctant, or we consider that neology is, to a large extent, a political activity, and there is a national or nationalist implication behind. And this is what many languages in the modern world give us examples of, I would say.

AUDIENCE: Yes. Hi. I guess I have one comment and two questions. The comment that English is not a threat insofar as people are not giving up local languages and taking on English is certainly false in the case of the United States, where so many Native American languages are disappearing. The late Ken Hale, who was a linguist here, spent his life trying to rescue many of these languages, a difficult struggle. It is a threat, certainly, in this country.

HAGEGE: I did not refer to that because it was the subject on my talk of yesterday.

AUDIENCE: I wasn't at the talk.

HAGEGE: I devoted it exclusively to the subject about treating. So I spoke about American Indian languages disappearing.

AUDIENCE: Oh, I'm glad. Thank you. The question is you described those words in Japanese as Japanized English. But not really Japanized English. This is English words being adapted to the Japanese system, and thoroughly adapted to it, to such an extent that many Japanese don't even know that these terms came from English in the end.

The question to me is that the Japanese are not particularly concerned about this. There's not much opposition to this. There was in the 1930s in the military regime where they did make this effort to create scientific, technological terms from old Chinese roots. But unlike the French, the Japanese are not concerned.

HAGEGE: They're not?

AUDIENCE: They are not concerned about this influx of what we think of as English words into the vocabulary.

HAGEGE: It's true. It's true.

AUDIENCE: And I wonder if you have a comment on that. The other question is the change of syntax in Chinese, which is quite interesting because, again, it complicates the political question. Chinese in general does not try to sound out English words. They look for Chinese roots for new terms. And yet, as you know, some of Chinese syntax and word order is now being affected by English influences. This is a subtler difference. I haven't seen Chinese object to this, but they do know it's happening. Are there other examples of this kind of syntactic change in other places?

HAGEGE: Yes. To begin with the end, and concerning the Chinese syntax, you are a sinologist yourself, aren't you?

AUDIENCE: Yes.

HAGEGE: You know that [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], meaning and, is not normally used in traditional Chinese every time we conjunct things, and is not as often used as the and and the A of English and French. And now we have texts which are full of [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], whereas the [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] of genuine Chinese is a preposition meaning with.

And [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] agreeing with him. And this [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], which is Chinese, yields today a conjunction of coordination, which did exist, in fact, in Chinese, but on a much lesser extent, and which is pervading-- invading the Chinese syntax and morphology.

This is an example among many other ones. Another one, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] which are the determiner in the noun group. I say [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]. The book, I read the book I wrote.

In Chinese, when we have between the subject [INAUDIBLE], or no subject, which is not it is often left away, and the [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], a very long stretch of words, the Chinese avoid having this [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], and they permute and choose another structure.

But Chinese, which is [INAUDIBLE] on English, has very, very long relative prepositions with [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], which are not Chinese. And I have many examples of that, and I was referring to that exactly.

Now as far as the first part of your question is concerned, you are quite right. And I would accept that I exaggerated, to some extent, and should not speak so much of Americanized Japanese, Japanese as a very large amount of borrowings.

I will say I am not a specialist. I speak Japanese fluently,. But what I see when I give talks in Japanese in Japan when I am invited-- when I speak with the people later-- what I see is that I would strongly tend to think that there is a continuity in Japanese history, just the same way as in the sixth century, this country of Samurais, which was illiterate, adopted Chinese characters, just in the same way as it adopted an enormous amount of Chinese by syllable which it pronounced the Japanese way, but which way what we call Sino-Japanese.

In the same way, recently, it has adopted a great, great many English borrowed words, which lead me to think-- which is a hypothesis which has a cultural or sociocultural and philosophical implication-- I am not a philosopher and don't want to indulge in a facilities or things which could be contradicted.

But it leads me to think that, as opposed to French, as you said yourself, and you say, unlike French, in which language is a very politicized and very nationalistic thing of which French have a very high conscience, and which has always been associated with power under the monarchy just the same as any other republic.

On the contrary-- contrary to that, in Japan-- it seems to me that language is not a political matter. In France it is a very strongly political matter, and the reaction of many French intellectuals against Americanization is directly drawn from this psychology, which in the case of Japan, is almost non-existent. This is what I would propose.

PRESENTER: Maybe one more question? Yes.

AUDIENCE: I'm going to make an observation, a question from a different perspective, which is I think connected to us, our being at MIT, which is you were talking about the differences in English largely in terms of different countries in terms of real space.

HAGEGE: Of what?

AUDIENCE: Of real space, real geographic space. You mentioned a little the internet. But think it's by no coincidence that the worldwide web was invented by an Englishman working in a Francophone city for an international physics committee, and that one of the ways that English really is becoming a world language is within science and technology. And in certain fields, such as physics, biology, computer science, the discourse is really monolingual in English.

And I was just wondering what's your take on-- and there's good reasons for that in the sense that it has to be one language because there is a premium placed on precision and the ability to share data and all those kinds of things.

But again, this is never going to be a first language for these people. It's created a phenomenon that we already have where the vast majority of scientific and technical communication in the world is in English. But the majority of people who are reading and writing or receiving and producing that language are not native speakers. And do you see that as a threat?

HAGEGE: Oh. I had a question. Are you able to appreciate the quality and the correctness of their English, these scholars who are not native speakers? And do you not think that, as the text I read strongly suggests, there is an unequal situation because many of these non-native speakers of English who, in scientific congress, resort to it, cannot express their thought as fully as they would if they used their native tongues?

AUDIENCE: But they couldn't communicate to each other.

HAGEGE: I'm not sure.

AUDIENCE: Well, actually, I've talked to physicists, and they would say that they can get much more work done [INAUDIBLE].

HAGEGE: What gives you a good argument-- which of course, I don't criticize-- is that scientific scholars and scientists have always had an international language. It was Latin. For some time it was German, yes, and today it's English. It's true.

But Latin was a dead language already. I mean, it did not exist anymore in everyday conversation. So it was unmarked in the linguistic sense of unmarked. German reigned during a very short period of time. And today the reign of English is not without causing some political problems. This is the reason why I am not quite-- although I'm not reluctant, not loathe to-- I'm not quite ready to adopt it without some hesitation. There is something implied behind that which is--

AUDIENCE: Whatever political [INAUDIBLE], there's a huge critical mass of the fact that the literature in these fields is now being produced in English. And that makes it, in some ways, there is a huge amount of momentum to keep it in English.

HAGEGE: No. I would have a question. I think-- you're not a journalist.

AUDIENCE: No.

HAGEGE: You are scholar. So I tell you why I opened the question whether you might or might not be a journalist. I think this does not apply to you. But in general, that there is a kind of terrorist attitude when repeating, repeating, repeating a thing which has not been demonstrated by many observations.

I mean, many people say what you have just said, to what extent is it true? The ones who say what you say, have these people a testimony of all the congresses in a given subject in which they have been able to observe that English was the only used language? And to what extent is it not a journalist, to some extent, terrorist attitude, the fact of repeating, repeating, repeating the thesis, the situation, that you cannot avoid it and that you have to submit yourself to it? To this I react.

AUDIENCE: Well, I can give you an actual concrete. In physics, the language of publication is LaTeX.

HAGEGE: Is--?

AUDIENCE: It's a typesetting, word processing language. And all physicists use LaTeX because it allows the use of the writing equations [INAUDIBLE]. LaTeX is English-based. But basically, to publish in physics-- and this is true-- one has to-- especially since the fall of the Soviet Union, when the only other real alternative language for physics was Russian. Since that point, just because of the fact that, in essence, the only publication tools in English-based publication, that it really is true.

HAGEGE: Well, if it is true, as you say, then don't you think that the ones to whom English is not native, and who may be great scholars, are in a situation of inequality because they cannot express their thoughtfully, even though you may purport that physics is not a literary matter, and that you have just to expose what you have experience about, and to speak in terms of numbers and so on.

There is also a certain discourse in physic. And this discourse requires that you have a minimum mastering of English. And if you don't, this is an unequal situation for scholars who are not English speakers.

AUDIENCE: Can I ask you one question? It's a question, also, to follow up on your question that you asked.

HAGEGE: This is an important question. Thank you very much for--

AUDIENCE: I'm curious, as you yourself, you keep saying that you cannot-- if you express yourself in another language, you cannot express yourself fully, communicate as fully. Do you feel that way yourself, that when you speak to us, do you feel that you're not communicating as fully?

HAGEGE: I'm not a good example.

HAGEGE: OK. All right. So you would take a [INAUDIBLE].

HAGEGE: I thinK-- I am a-- if I can use this neologism-- a hyper verbalized man. And to the extent that I am hyper verbalized, I feel at home in any language. So I'm not a good example. I am, to some extent, a monster.

But teratology being apart, ordinary people, the ones who are very great scholars and who don't expose themselves in the parts of their talk which are literary discourse, linguistic discourse, are less necessarily disfavored as compared to the ones who speak the native tongues, who are English speakers.

AUDIENCE: I would actually argue that the register for scientific discourse becomes a much smaller set and becomes a smaller set that people can become confident and equal because they're not really discussing a very large [INAUDIBLE].

HAGEGE: That's right. That's right. This is an interesting remark. And when they do-- it happens that they do also discuss huge matters and the things which are not just details, what happens?

AUDIENCE: They go to their native language.

HAGEGE: You know, I alluded to that in the course of my talk, that in the 18th and 19th century, many scholars in physics, chemistry, and other, let's just say, [INAUDIBLE] sciences, were polyglots. They were multilinguals. I mean, the possibility of scholars being able to speak the language is not something which has not existed. It belongs to the past of Europe. And without saying that I have any nostalgia of that-- I was not born then-- knowing that, I think that this is an example probably to be considered and reflected upon. The situation of today is not quite unavoidable.

AUDIENCE: Remember that if a scientist has to learn five languages to get [INAUDIBLE], that becomes a vast barrier as opposed to having to learn just one.

HAGEGE: To some extent this is true. But this is open to discussion.

AUDIENCE: I just want to say one can worry about the long-term implications of the discipline when it is conducted in only one language because if we lament the death of language, of any language, as the loss of a whole cultural system and a way of thinking, how much more richer might the discipline be if, indeed, there were multilingual contributions?

HAGEGE: I quite agree.

PRESENTER: Maybe one last one.

AUDIENCE: Do you think that the language of American culture [INAUDIBLE]

HAGEGE: Every time I give a public talk, there is an Esperantist somewhere, which is not your case, probably.

AUDIENCE: I don't speak the language, but I've heard many things about it and don't really know.

HAGEGE: I have an answer. I have an answer because this is a question on which I have striven to think as much as I can. And I must say the result of this research is a great disappointment Dr. Zamenhof, when he invented it-- he was a Jew of Bialystok in Polish, in Poland, then occupied by the Czar, by his white collar Russians. And the majority of the population spoke Polish, and the Jews, who had the ghetto, spoke Yiddish and Hebrew-- did not speak Hebrew but used it in the prayers.

So Dr. Zamenhof was an ophthalmologist, as you know, an oculist, a generous man because end of 19th century is a very internationalist period. He thought, I will invent a language in order to-- he had the illusion that a language can lead people to a resolution of conflict, which is quite untrue, as I said in the example of Yugoslavia. And he had other kind of illusions which were widely shared in the end of 19th century. So he invented Esperanto.

In 1887 he published his manifesto, and in 1905 in Boulogne, in France, they had their first congress international, which was a success. And then the contemporanes, the people who lived there and who left testimonies, said that Esperanto represented a great hope.

But now I give you my opinion. I think that there was no impediment, there was no obstacle to the possibility of Esperanto becoming a real international language, all the more since it did not have any political power behind it since it was an invented language. So the drawback which I mentioned as far as English is concerned was not the case then.

However, my interpretation is this. Unfortunately, European countries were engaged in fratricide, cruel and human conflicts, during less than 50 years. And in both occasions, the massive intervention on the United States make American English what I call an Esperanto de facto. And this is my interpretation.

In 1917, President Wilson sent his troops relatively late, but the Americans came. In the Second World War, the American intervention, due to Japanese attack, was much sooner. And in both cases, I think that the advent of American English in Europe was the fate, the bad fate of Esperanto because American English became, itself, what I call this Esperanto de facto. And this is one of the reasons why I think the fate of Esperanto is a sad one because human stupidness and human cruelty were the main obstacle to its diffusion.

[APPLAUSE]